S1 E4: Lucy’s HBAC Story: Finding the Right Team, Trust, and Continuity

April: You’re listening to the VBAC Hub podcast and I’m your host April Austin. I’m a doula and antenatal teacher, VBAC mum and the founder of the VBAC Hub CIC. This podcast is here to dig into the messy, complicated and deeply human side of birth after Caesarean. We’re going to talk about the evidence, the guidelines, share birth stories, give context and talk about the realities of navigating the maternity system. We’ll be having respectful conversations, discussing all of the nuances and hopefully having a bit of companionship along the way. If you’re ready to get informed and feel less alone in this journey, you’re in the right place. Make sure you follow along so you never miss an episode.

Hello! Hi my loves and welcome back to the VBAC Hub podcast. Today I’m talking to Lucy, who is going to be sharing her home birth after caesarean story. I’m really, really excited to get into this with you. So Lucy, welcome to the podcast — can you introduce yourself and tell us all about you?

Lucy: Hi, yeah, I’m Lucy. I’m so excited to be here. Like you say, I had a home birth after caesarean at the start of this year, January 2025, after a very traumatic first birth — I’m not going to downplay it — which was an emergency caesarean. We’ll talk a bit more in depth about that soon, but yeah, that’s what led me down the path of wanting to have a VBAC, and then even more so wanting to be at home.

April: And you also work as a birth worker as well?

Lucy: Yeah, so since my transformational home birth this year I have trained as a hypnobirthing teacher. I have plans to train as a doula next year, because I had a doula and she was just so — she is such an incredible person. I just feel like she gave me a little glimpse of what I could now do, because I just think it was so amazing. Her presence and her support, just being there the whole time, really helped me get the outcome that I had. So yeah, I want to be able to offer that to other people.
April: That is so exciting. As a fellow doula, yes, please come aboard! I think this is how most of us start — we have transformational experiences and then we’re like, oh yes, I now want to go and impart this wisdom and care and continuity towards other people. So I’m really excited about that for you. That’s fantastic.
So with everybody, I always start off with their previous experience — their caesarean experience. Can you give us the Too Long, Don’t Read version of what your previous caesarean experience was like?
Lucy: Yeah, so I had a very straightforward pregnancy — so much so that I didn’t have any sickness or any real fatigue until right towards the end, just a bit of pelvic pain. Everything was just ticking all the good boxes of low risk, no issues, all good — until I had a fundal height measurement at about 31 weeks and my midwife looked at me and my partner and said, “Oh.” And you know the oh is never good. So obviously we were like, oh, what do you mean, what’s going on? She said the bump was measuring quite a bit ahead — I think I was 31 weeks and was measuring around 34 centimetres — so that triggered a referral for a growth scan.
We went in basically immediately — it was a Friday or Thursday morning. They couldn’t do a scan until Monday, so we went home flapping, thinking, what’s going on, am I growing a humongous alien baby that I can’t give birth to? Had the scan, and yes, it was looking like the baby was measuring quite big. I’m sure a lot of listeners know that growth scans can be out by 15% either way, especially late on. So I was told that if I was allowed to go to 40 weeks the baby would be something like 10 to 11 pounds, and that I needed to get the baby out before then.
I was basically invited back fortnightly to check that the growth was still exponential and off the charts — which it was. I saw a consultant who gave me two options: booking in for an induction at 38 weeks, or a planned c-section at 39 weeks. I was about 37 weeks when I had that appointment, so essentially the following week I was being told the baby was coming — and there was no discussion around doing nothing. A lot of people in that moment might think, well, I’m going to give myself a chance, I’m not going to go straight for major abdominal surgery if I can avoid it. So I opted for the induction at 38 weeks, and it was hell, to be honest. The whole experience was hell.
He was born at 38 plus four, and to be fair, when he was born he was nine pounds two, so he was on the larger side. But since then I’ve reflected and wondered — could his weight have been increased because I was pumped with fluids during labour? There are all these things I now know. I think yes, he was in inverted commas a larger baby, but I don’t think he was too big to be born vaginally. And I also think if he’d been born following spontaneous labour, he likely wouldn’t have been that big, or maybe he would have been that big but at 40 weeks when he was ready to come.
It was also COVID — it was 2021, the start of 2021. I was quite young, I’d only just turned 23. I didn’t have the conviction to really stick up for myself and say to the consultant, “No, I know I can do nothing and that’s actually what I want to do.” They told me the biggest risk of having a large baby as a smaller woman was shoulder dystocia. When my midwife mentioned that first, I did so much research — I went away, read all the NICE guidelines, everything I could find to look at the absolute risk for me specifically, with no other risk factors. And everything I found was leaning towards it being okay, that there was no need to intervene. But then when I sat down with a consultant who has obviously never been pregnant himself, telling me “these are your two options,” I just crumbled in that moment and was like, I’ll go for the induction because I want to try and do it myself.
I look back now and think that fundal height measurement was the moment the cascade of interventions took over.
April: It’s really hard, isn’t it, when you’re young. I’m a fellow young first-time parent — I was 22 when I had my first. I also have a husband that’s six foot four, and my first baby was ten pounds, though he measured fine the whole way through. And like you said, growth scans can be out by 15% either way. Regardless of that, you’ve got a tall partner, so that could just genetically be normal for your body and your baby’s genetic makeup. Yes, there is a risk of shoulder dystocia, but like you said, that risk in context can be quite small. It isn’t a 100% given, and there weren’t very informative conversations that respected your choice or your birth rights to say, if you want to do nothing, this is what we could do to support you. It’s just fear, fear, fear, option A, option B, without actually saying to you, what do you want to do?
I don’t know whether you noticed a difference between your first and second pregnancies — personally, I found that when I was in my early 20s having my first baby I had quite infantilising conversations, people talked down to me a bit. I noticed the stark difference between conversations I had at 21 or 22 versus those I had in my third pregnancy when I was 27 or 28. Was that your experience?
Lucy: It’s funny you say that about age because it’s very similar — I’m 27 now and have just had my second baby. I didn’t actually experience that during the second pregnancy, but I wonder if it’s because I had the same midwife and she knew me. It was quite nice actually. I live in a different area, just the next town over, but she had also moved and was covering my GP’s catchment area both times just by chance. And quite uncommonly, I saw her for every single antenatal appointment for both pregnancies, which felt really comforting.
I think — and I didn’t know this at the time — the fundal height measurements were probably more accurate the first time round because the appointments were at the same time with the same midwife. But I didn’t know that was a factor to consider. Funnily enough, the second time round I didn’t have any fundal height measurements because I was scared it was going to trigger that cascade of interventions again. She was really supportive — she did respect everything I was saying no to. She mentioned the vaccination several times and I was like, yeah, I don’t think I’m going to do it. And she was like, okay, I just need to tick that we’ve talked about it, and I was like, that’s fine, we’ve talked about it. She wasn’t pushing at all. She was actually really supportive.
When we were talking about home birth it wasn’t particularly unsupportive, but it was more like, oh, I think that might be a bit of a challenge — more to do with jumping through hoops to get it authorised. Not that she didn’t think I was able to birth my next baby vaginally, just that the policy was something she felt a bit stuck with.
April: That’s the thing with community midwives within the NHS, isn’t it — when they’re saying oh no, the recommendation is this. If you do get a good community midwife who understands the contrast between what women and birthing people can choose to do versus what as a midwife she’s expected to push people towards, it’s quite well spoken about within midwifery and birth working circles that midwives feel like they can’t advocate for women and support them in their choices because they’ve got someone senior breathing down their neck. And that’s bizarre to me personally, because I think everyone’s care plan should be individualised. That’s the whole point.
Lucy: Yeah, I do vaguely remember one antenatal appointment where, because from the very beginning I was like, I’m having this baby at home — I went straight in and said so I’m planning to have the baby at home. And she was like, whoa, oh right, okay — and kind of parked the conversation. In my notes the place of birth was logged as North Manchester General Hospital. I was like, okay, whatever, I was only 10 weeks pregnant, I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.
Then I brought it up a couple more times, and I do vaguely remember one appointment where we were talking about place of birth and birth planning, and about things that would be out of guidance. She kind of said, my hands are a bit tied, but if they weren’t — and then went on to say that she thought I was doing the right thing, basically. Like, I am supportive of what you’re doing, but just don’t let anyone know I said that.
April: Yeah, it was like, I shouldn’t really be saying this, but I think you’ll be fine — but obviously logged in the notes that we’ve had a discussion about her high risk pregnancy. That’s the thing, isn’t it — they just want it all covered. We have informed them that they are high risk. High risk on what terms?
Lucy: Exactly. A caesarean that happened four years ago that had no complications — very, very lucky, because it was an emergency after a failed induction, forceps, an episiotomy, the monitoring on baby’s head, 10 to 12 hours of labour properly contracting and then two hours of pushing, and then an epidural — all of that.
April: Yeah, literally everything. I don’t think there’s much you missed. You did a full service.
Lucy: I definitely got my money’s worth from the NHS, didn’t I?
April: I was just thinking that! They chucked a hell of a lot of money at you, all for a nine pound two baby.
Lucy: I’m laughing about it now, but it’s still really hard. Because especially now I’ve had my second, I think it didn’t need to be that way. And whilst I was pregnant last year and working with my doula, there was a session where we talked about induction and I cried my absolute heart out. I sobbed and was like, it could have been so avoided. I should have just said no. And she had to say, Lucy, yes, you could have said no, but at the time you made the decision based on what was offered to you, and you were failed by the system. I didn’t fail — I was failed by the system, which didn’t give me the options and just swept me up and took me on a ride of intervention.
April: Which is such a common story. I think the majority of people I talk to had their first caesarean after an induction. And if I remember correctly from the national maternity and perinatal audit that came out about a month ago covering 2023 stats — we were crunching some of the numbers in the doula network I’m part of, and it came out that 50% of first-time parents who have an induction are now having a caesarean. Clearly this process is not working. I imagine if you were being informed of that data, how many people would be going, well, do I want this induction?
And like you said, you’re making decisions with the information you have at the time. But when they’re railroading you and you’re vulnerable and it’s COVID, and they’re telling you the risk of shoulder dystocia is brain damage or death —
Lucy: Oh, thanks for that. Not that you’re skilled and trained in how to deal with it.
April: Exactly — and not that you’ve gone away and done your own research and know that while yes, it’s a risk, it’s also a very, very tiny risk. I think it’s so unfair — using shoulder dystocia as an example to say the risk doubles or triples, but it goes from something like 0.02% to 0.06%. That is an absolutely tiny risk, and it’s one I’m willing to take. That’s the key. Some people might not — some people might find that terrifying and decide to go straight for the section, and that’s fine, because they’ve been given the information, mulled it over and made a decision. What was missing was all the information to help you make an informed decision in a conversation with someone you should have been able to trust.
Lucy: Yeah. And their pathway is just, we want you to do this on this date because then we know how many midwives we need to staff. It’s all about keeping rotas nice and tidy. And when I was in hospital from Friday morning until Tuesday night —
Yeah, so that first experience was traumatic, very, very challenging. Not something I’ll ever get over — I’ve sort of made peace with it, but it’s still there and it still impacts. I’ve got a scar, you know, it’s going to be there forever. But thankfully my scar has never given me any issues, other than when I was pregnant and everyone was like, you can’t have a vaginal birth, your body will rupture.
April: Oh goodness. So how soon after you’d processed a bit of your first experience did you know you wanted a home birth? Because you said you went into your booking appointment for your second baby already knowing you wanted one.
Lucy: To be honest, when I was pregnant with my first, I remember really thinking I’d love to have the baby at home. I don’t know where the idea came from — if I’d seen a post somewhere on social media or read something — but I remember feeling like I wish I could have this baby at home, that would be amazing. But for several reasons it didn’t happen. One being COVID, and we’d literally moved into our house five weeks before the baby was born so we were house-hunting whilst pregnant — it was all very stressful and I just didn’t have the headspace to do the preparation or have the fight in me to research and push for a home birth. Which I don’t think you should have to do. But I just didn’t have it in me at that time. I remember speaking to my partner as well and he was like, no.
April: They didn’t know. Yeah, it’s quite difficult, isn’t it, when they’re your main birth support and they’re a bit like, no.
Lucy: Yeah, so I was like, okay, we’ll just put that to one side then. And didn’t revisit it again. Then obviously I had the experience I had, and I think as soon as we kind of decided — we always said we’d like more than one baby, but there were nearly four years between them, and that wasn’t because of the first experience, just life in between. But as soon as we decided we were ready to think about having another one, I was like, I think I want this baby to be born at home. I planted the seed quite early on with my partner. We talked about it and he was very, very resistant and hesitant. Then thankfully we fell pregnant very quickly after we decided we wanted another baby, so I was like, right, all systems go — now it’s time to think about how we’re going to prepare. I need a doula. So I looked into booking one pretty much straight away, first couple of months.
The home birth was just sort of bubbling under the surface. It just needed to grow inside me to be like, I’m having a home birth! But yeah, I knew pretty much straight away that this baby was going to be born at home — or that I was going to do everything I could to give myself the best chance of that.
April: Home birth was plan A?
Lucy: Yes, absolutely. To be honest, it was the only plan. I was terrified of going into hospital. Terrified. And I’m not saying the decision was made out of fear — I really, really wanted to experience home birth because I just felt that it’s the most physiological, biological, normal, natural way for a baby to be born. You go to the hospital when you’re poorly for them to make you better. Why do we go there to have our babies?
April: And I think as well with what we know about birth and the need to feel safe and secure — even though you say you were making that decision partly out of fear, you just didn’t feel safe in hospital. You weren’t going to labour well.
Lucy: No, absolutely. And more than anything, this baby needed to be born vaginally. That is something I felt so strongly about for my own mental health. Yes, arguably maybe I had a good chance of that happening if I’d gone into hospital, even considering the risk factors I’d been labelled with. Maybe being in hospital would have been the best place from some people’s perspective. But for me, I knew I needed to feel safe, I needed to feel in control. I always knew I could go into hospital at any moment if I wanted to — but once you’re there, you can’t come back.
And that’s the thing that a lot of people misunderstand when they see someone planning a home birth even though they’re technically classed as high risk. The list of what counts as high risk is as long as your arm — I rarely meet pregnant people now who aren’t classed as high risk in one way or another. You’re basically a unicorn if you get to the end of your pregnancy without a high risk label. But when people hear that you’re having a home birth, they think you’re staying at home no matter what, that it’s a black and white choice. And it’s not that simple. There’s so much more nuance to it. And everyone I’ve ever spoken to has always said, well, yeah, of course I’d go into hospital if needed.
Because I was saying throughout my whole pregnancy to my partner too — who was very, very hesitant right until 35 weeks, which coincided with us hiring an independent midwife —
April: Oh, glorious!
Lucy: Very, very hesitant. And I think because I was so adamant throughout my whole pregnancy, this baby’s being born at home, this baby’s being born at home, I didn’t feel like I needed to add the caveat of, if anything goes wrong obviously I’ll go into hospital. It was more of a mindset thing for myself — saying it out loud to people to manifest that this is what’s going to happen. Of course, the ultimate goal was me being healthy and the baby being healthy. So if anything was going to take me off track of that goal, then yes of course I would go into hospital. But to get to that goal, I felt like being at home gave me the best opportunity.
April: So you hired an independent midwife — can you take us on the journey of how you got to that point?
Lucy: Now, having a doula and an independent midwife was once just a dream that never in a million years felt like it would be a reality.
April: Surely that’s any woman’s dream.
Lucy: Yes! Your own midwife who cares about you and is there through every step of the way and fully supports you in your decisions, and a doula who is there to be that emotional and physical support during labour. Oh, it was just so dreamy — but it wasn’t a position we got to easily.
As I mentioned, I knew I needed a doula pretty much straight off the bat because I knew what I knew and what I wanted to happen, but I worried that I would have a wobble and not be able to stand my ground, similar to the first time. I thought, oh, I’m going to get white coat syndrome and be like, yes okay, book me in for an elective section even though I know I don’t want it. I was really scared that was going to happen. So I thought, right, I need somebody who’s going to be that sounding board, who knows what they’re talking about, who is impartial, who can help me process everything and all the information given to me, to help me make decisions.
I also hadn’t really laboured — I had, but not properly, because the first time was synthetic oxytocin, not how my body would have done it spontaneously. So it was all new. I didn’t know what to expect. I didn’t want to go into it going, oh well, I’ve had one baby, I’ve laboured already, I’ve got to 10 centimetres before, so it’ll be fine. Because I really, really, really wanted this baby to be born vaginally at home.
Had a few interviews, chatted to a few people, found Hannah, and she was incredible. She is incredible. We worked very closely together throughout my whole pregnancy, my partner included. We did all the antenatal stuff together and that definitely helped him get on board. He definitely then realised that home is the best place to be. And I think the turning point was when she said to me, basically, it’s my decision and he needs to do the work to get on board.
April: You’re right — it’s your body.
Lucy: Yeah. It’s my body. I’m going to plan for a home birth and if he’s got any issues with that he needs to go away, do his own research, and ultimately just be supportive. Which feels quite blunt and a bit uncomfortable because we’re a team, it’s his baby too, it’s quite complex. But ultimately it’s my body, I’m going through labour and giving birth to this baby, and I need to be making decisions that feel right for me. I don’t need to think about how my birth partner is going to feel about my decision. That was huge. That was a turning point — I was like, no, I’m not humming and hawing anymore. This baby’s being born at home.
So I told my community midwife several times. She wasn’t unsupportive, but she was like, you do realise there isn’t a home birth team? I said, yes, I’m well aware, but I’m still doing it — because I’d been informed that midwives will be found and sent to me if I just stay at home rather than going into hospital. I didn’t actually say that to her. And when she said the home birth service had actually been suspended and probably wouldn’t be up and running by the time I had my baby, I was like, yeah, okay, thank you — no problem, still having this baby at home, thank you, bye.
And then later, well into my third trimester, it became very clear that midwives wouldn’t actually come. They sent a letter — sent every pregnant woman a letter just before Christmas last year — saying that rumours of midwives being found and sent to home births were categorically not going to happen moving forward. Which was quite a scary letter to get, because I was like, oh, now we’ve got a decision to make and I’m 34 weeks pregnant.
I also forgot to mention — I tested positive for GBS twice during my pregnancy, so that was just another thing the midwife was like, you need intravenous antibiotics every four hours. I was like, hmm, I know that’s what you’d think I might need, and I know it’s a valid option, but I’ve also done my research and I don’t want that.
So the letter came and triggered conversations with my partner and my doula. Right, what are our options now? It had been very much like, it’ll be fine, midwives will come, they’re not going to let us stay at home without them. And then suddenly it was, oh, okay, that is actually what’s going to happen. So there were conversations around: do we plan for a free birth? Do we plan to ring an ambulance when the baby’s coming? Do we plan for a hospital birth? Or do we hire an independent midwife?
Free birth I was kind of open to — it wasn’t my preferred option, but I think had we had more time I would have been more open to it. But I was 34 weeks pregnant and it was also Christmas, the worst time to try and learn something really important. So that was sort of vetoed.
April: Yeah, you can’t tap into your instincts on that timeline. And one of my bug bears with the NHS at the moment is that for women who do have a home birth service, if you call up and there’s no midwife available and they say, oh, we don’t have anyone available tonight, and you choose to stay at home, they put that down as you choosing to free birth. And I’m like, I don’t think someone’s choosing to free birth in that situation — they’re making a decision because you’re not sending somebody. You have a service that you’re not providing, and there’s a whole birth rights legal issue around that. The true definition of a free birth — someone who actively chooses that — is being conflated with women who want home births and simply aren’t being sent midwives when the services are there.
Lucy: And that’s potentially where the biggest risks lie, because those women and their birth partners are not prepared for no midwife being there. And that’s where we were. Because yes, of course the risk factors are there, but I didn’t feel like having a previous section was a particular risk factor for me — I felt confident that my body would be fine and would do it. The GBS I was a bit more concerned about, because it can make babies very poorly. But there’s also no way to know until the baby has been born and is showing signs of infection whether it’s even been passed on. So I was thinking, even if I have a good labour and birth at home, the baby could get poorly 24 hours or three or four days later. So that doesn’t feel like something you specifically need a midwife present for during the birth. But yeah, it was those niggling what ifs — it just felt safer to have a midwife present.
So that left us with planning to birth in hospital or hiring an independent midwife. And like I said, I was terrified of going into hospital. That didn’t feel like a choice to me — it felt like I was being forced into it. It would have gone against every instinct in my body to put myself in that environment where I wouldn’t have felt safe. So for me, that wasn’t even something to discuss — let’s park it and think about whether we can get an independent midwife, because for me that was the only option. I said to my partner: if you want me to come out the other side of this labour and birth as a whole human and a functioning woman with two children to look after, the independent midwife is the only option for us.
He came around to the idea — because we ended up hiring one! She was also recommended by Ada Hewlett. So I spoke to her, went back to my partner and said, I think this is going to be the best option for us. After speaking to her I was really excited — I was like, oh, it’s going to happen. That was the first moment that I truly believed my baby was going to be born at home.
April: And you know someone’s coming then. That’s a huge source of anxiety for people — in the last 15 years, I haven’t known anyone who’s booked an NHS home birth and been able to say yes, there’s definitely a midwife coming. It’s always been, there might not be someone available, the service might be suspended, we might be short-staffed. But now you knew someone was coming, and someone you’d already met, who’d already been to your house.
Lucy: Yes, because we’d had two or three antenatal appointments where she came to our house. That comfort of knowing, you are coming, you are going to be here when my baby is born, and you are going to be our comfort blanket. If anything untoward happens or anything that raises alarm bells, you’re going to be the one that notices and acts on that — that takes such a huge weight off my partner’s shoulders. And I remember asking her, how will I know if my uterus is rupturing? Because surely it doesn’t just happen without any warning signs — what are they?
April: Right! The word is so horrific. It gives me all sorts of visual images.
Lucy: Do you know what I mean? I was thinking about the external scar, thinking, is there just going to be a hand coming out of me? It’s such a weird word and not very well explained. So yeah, I asked how I’d know — and she said, you’ll just know. It’ll feel different. You might have pain between contractions. Things will just feel different. Holistically things will look a bit different and we’ll know something isn’t quite right — and we’ve got time then to act. It’s not like you notice something doesn’t feel right and you’ve got five seconds to act. You’ve got time, and in that moment, that might be a reason to transfer.
April: So tell us a little bit about the lead up to labour and your birth story — you said it was 10 hours?
Lucy: Yeah, so one thing I was wondering was what is my normal gestation? Because I got to 38 weeks and four days and thought, oh, I’d had a baby at this point. Every day after that was like, I’ve never been this pregnant before. I prepared mentally for 42 weeks — got another four weeks to go, got another three weeks, that sort of mindset. It was also my birthday the week before, so I was 39 weeks pregnant on my birthday. I was like, as long as the baby comes after my birthday, I’ll be fine. I don’t want to share my birthday.
And he was born at 39 weeks and six days. So I had six days of being 27.
I didn’t really have any warning signs of labour starting — nothing that was like, it’s coming. And then it basically started and continued until it ended, which I wasn’t expecting. Because there’s a lot of conversation around your waters breaking and infection and you’ve only got 24 hours and all of this, and I was like, oh god, that’s probably going to happen to me. My self-preservation was like, that will happen to me. So yeah, nothing really. I could feel that baby had got very low because I was waddling and in quite a bit of pain, and when the midwife was palpating she was like, this baby’s very low.
The day I went into labour I was 39 plus five, and I’d been out for breakfast with a friend I hadn’t seen for a while. No signs of labour — no twinges, no mucus plug, nothing. Baby was very happy in there. I came home, went to the toilet like a million times and thought, oh, I’ve heard this can happen when things are starting. Said that to my dad and he was like, oh okay, what do we need to do? And I said, nothing right now, let’s just see what happens. I was chatting with my midwife and doula saying, I think it might be happening soon.
Actually the week before, I was stood making tea and had to do a bit of swaying and breathing because I was getting a few twinges — chatted to the midwife, who was like, oh, it’s fine, just keep an eye on it, baby might be coming or might just be getting ready. Obviously it was just getting ready, because another week went by. And then on this day I think I lost a bit of my plug, but nothing that was like, it’s definitely happening now — until I put my three-year-old to bed and breastfed him, which I did every night before he went to sleep. Some nights I’d get a bit of cramping, but this night the pain was just different. I had to ask him to stop and had to ask my partner to take over and take him to bed, because I was like, I think it’s happening. And that was the moment — this is what spontaneous labour feels like. I was so excited.
So I just went downstairs, sat on my ball, rolling around, rocking, watching Gavin and Stacey because I needed something really lighthearted that would make me laugh — dim lights, trying to have a bit to eat and drink. In the birth prep we’d been told we don’t need to ring anyone — doula or midwife — until I basically can’t talk through contractions. At that point I was fine, it was probably about half past eight in the evening, watching TV, rocking on my ball, chatting away. My partner was timing the contractions on his phone and taking charge of that. A surge came and I was talking, it came, and I just went quiet. He was like, you literally just stopped talking during the contraction. And I went, oh yeah, maybe we need to ring Hannah.
So we did. The doula said just keep timing and as soon as things seem to be ramping up, we’ll make our way over. Within about half an hour my partner was like, I think we need you to come — things seem to have ramped up a lot. So that’s what we did. She was with us about half an hour later and filling the pool. My partner had already inflated the pool.
We had a bit of a chat and I said, when can I get in the pool? And she said, oh, you’ll know when you want or need to — but it might not be yet. About ten minutes later I said, I think I need to get in. So we filled it up and honestly those first few hours are such a blur because it happened so fast and was so intense — in a good way, because I was just so excited. I was like, this is what it feels like. And it was manageable. I just felt really content and excited that this is how it’s supposed to be — I’m just going to let my body do its thing and the baby’s coming.
Then the midwife arrived, probably about three hours in, before midnight. I remember hearing her say something like, oh, I think the baby’s going to be here before the second midwife arrives at this rate. And I was like, oh my gosh, wow! But that didn’t happen — over seven hours went by before the baby came. It slowed down in the early hours of the morning. I was in and out of the pool a few times. My doula did some rebozo work, which helped with some discomfort and helped baby be able to move a bit.
Then the turning point was sitting on the toilet backwards with my feet on yoga blocks —
April: Oh really?
Lucy: — yeah, and one of the midwives gave me a massage, and every time a surge came she put counter-pressure on perfectly timed. I was just able to get through it. It was honestly so perfectly timed, like she was in my body and could feel it. I was also using gas and air to help with the deep long breaths, which I found really helpful.
But before that, at around 4am maybe, I’d had a bit of a wobble. There was something in me that I just couldn’t fully surrender to. I remember Hannah my doula saying, what’s on your mind, what’s holding you back? And I said, I think I’m worried about Benjamin waking up — my three year old, just upstairs asleep. And she said, right, okay, but if that happens, someone will go and see to him and he’ll go back to sleep and he’ll be fine. And he did wake up not long after. My partner went up, got him back to sleep, came back down — and then it’s like something switched in my mind and I was like, right, it’s time now. Very quickly after that it all just kind of unfolded perfectly. I got to the point where I was like, I need to get back in the pool now.
I made my way back to the pool. They were just getting it back up to temperature and I was stood next to it, I think holding my partner’s hands with my eyes closed, swaying, saying, why can’t I get in yet, can I get in yet? And he was like, yeah, you can, I don’t know what you’re waiting for.
So I got back in the pool, and not long after — I don’t even think it was 20 minutes, maybe half an hour — the baby was born. In like three or four surges. His head came out first and then his left arm, and I remember trying to pull him up to my chest thinking, oh, he’s here! And then realising he’s half in, half out, there’s a little bit left to go. And then he came, and straight onto my chest in the water — and it was just the most magical experience. I looked at my partner and I just said, I did it. I did it.
We didn’t know what we were having, so I hadn’t looked at that point. Then my partner went round and had a look and said, oh, it’s another boy. It’s another boy. And we were so, so happy. I just felt on top of the world. And simultaneously felt like I can never ever do this again, that was so intense — but also, this is the most incredible thing ever, how can anyone not want to do this?
April: Both those thoughts conflicting with one another because you’re tired!
Lucy: Oh my gosh, so tired. And something I’d been really anxious about whilst pregnant was delivering the placenta. I felt like it’s such unknown territory — so much of the conversation is around the baby and preparing for the baby, but I felt like there was very little talk about delivering the placenta, the options, how long it might take. That was on my mind during pregnancy. And then when you give birth to the baby it’s like oh, this is amazing and undignified and everything — but there’s a baby here, so all of that doesn’t matter. But then after, I was still going to be walking around with a baby I’d just given birth to, covered in blood, still attached to me on the inside, having to try and get out of the pool. It just felt a bit weird. I felt uncomfortable, self-conscious that I was naked and the baby was still attached to me and everyone was looking at me — obviously in awe, because they’re all women who were just so proud of me in that moment, so happy and so grateful to be there. But in an ideal world I wanted a full physiological third stage, and I’d wanted to keep that going, but I was just so done with it by that point. I was like, I just need this placenta out of me, please. So the midwife helped me along the way.
April: And that’s an informed choice in the moment for you to go, no, right now this is what I want. That’s what it’s all about.
Lucy: Exactly. And that’s how I felt the whole way through. Because there was definitely a moment — and I know we talk in birth preparation and hypnobirthing classes about transition and hitting a wall and feeling like I can’t do this any longer, which often means you’re very near the end — but I felt like I’d hit that wall about four times. There were definitely moments where I was like, this cannot go on for any longer, surely not at this intensity, it cannot go on. And then another two hours would go by. I started losing my patience with the baby — I was like, why is it taking so long? Because I felt like it had ramped up so quickly and then stayed at that high intensity for a really long time. Those moments where I just thought, oh, I’m a bit sick of this now. It was a really human experience.
Every time it happened I thought, oh, that means the baby’s coming because I must be in transition — and then the baby didn’t come. And I was like, what am I doing wrong? I remember opening my eyes in one moment, because I had my eyes closed most of the time with my earphones in, and being like, what am I doing wrong? Why is it not happening? And everyone was like, just trust the process.
April: Which is so hard. But also, as a doula, it’s exactly that — we have to learn so much about birth, particularly when we want to have a VBAC because of everything that’s happened before. You feel like you need to intellectualise your birth to justify it to other people, and then you need to let go for birth. And those two things are in direct conflict with one another. It is so frustrating when people just say, just trust it. And you’re like, I’m trying.
But like with your son — that moment of him waking up happening was like, as mothers and parents, we have that intuition. We know when our kids are going to wake up. You needed the evidence that it was going to be okay, and then it was. That is a very maternal instinct. I had to send my children away — the night before I went into labour with my second I rang my mum and cried and said, you need to take him. I went into labour that night. I just couldn’t do it with him there. And I think as mothers we’re doing the checklist in our head. There’s also always that element of, I need to get this baby born before the kid wakes up.
Lucy: Yes, I also felt against the clock, because he would have woken up at about half six while I was mooing in the kitchen.
April: And the chances are that the majority of children who witness births are not traumatised by it — they’re just like, oh, it’s fine. But we’re worried because we can’t be mum in that moment. You can’t be the primary caregiver because you’re a bit busy. It’s like your two instincts going, I’m birthing one child but the other one needs me.
So for interest — your first baby was big. How big was your second?
Lucy: Nine pounds three.
April: Amazing. That’s just the size of your babies.
Lucy: Exactly! To be honest, we were all very shocked because my bump wasn’t as big — I didn’t feel like I was carrying a nine pound three baby. But obviously he came out and that’s what I’ve been saying to people since. I just grow big babies. Big babies are okay.
April: Yeah, and you’re intact!
Lucy: I didn’t have any stitches. Well — I did tear, I had a second degree tear, but they were going to stitch it. By the time everything got prepped the midwife put the numbing stuff on, turned around to get everything ready, came back and was like, oh, you’re not bleeding anymore. She said she’d only been going to stitch it to stop the active bleeding and asked if I still wanted her to do it. I said, I don’t think so — what do you think? And she said she’d probably leave it, since the only reason she’d offered to do it was because it was actively bleeding and she didn’t want me to lose more blood than necessary, but it had stopped. So I said, yeah, fine, don’t bother then.
April: And what was that moment like — I ask everybody who’s had a VBAC this — when you’ve had a caesarean and you have to get up, you have to move, it’s a very different experience. What was it like when you could just get up and move?
Lucy: I felt like 24 hours later I hadn’t even just given birth. Maybe not even that long — he was born at 5:49am. Because I’d tested positive for GBS, the midwives were coming every two hours alternately to check for signs of infection in the baby. I think around the midday visit I went downstairs to greet her at the door. Like, what was that — four hours old? And I was able to walk down the stairs. I got to the bottom and I was like, wow, I am a superwoman. I can do anything. If I’ve just done this, I can do anything. The placenta was still on the side waiting to go in the fridge.
April: Oh my god, that’s amazing.
Lucy: And I was like, wow, throw anything at me. Yeah, the oxytocin high. I definitely felt on top of the world. And I feel like that has stuck with me because I do feel more confident — as a parent for both of them. Breastfeeding came really naturally — very lucky, and I had the support and continuity of care from the doula and midwives. I just felt like that came really naturally, it wasn’t particularly painful, I was able to move around. I struggled to get on the floor, don’t get me wrong — I wasn’t doing cartwheels in the garden — but I was still able to be present for my older child, which was something I was really scared about if I were to have another section. Because for him, I honestly couldn’t do anything. I don’t mean that lightly. I could only just about get myself dressed, and even that my partner had to help me with my bottom half. When you’ve had that experience and your independence is taken away, but you’ve got a baby that’s reliant on you — it haunts you.
April: It does. Yeah. So that was in the back of my mind too — I don’t know how vaginal birth feels afterwards. What if I can’t do things? But that wasn’t my experience. I always wonder if the perception is different because I had a third degree tear after my VBAC. I’d had two previous caesareans and I remember getting up off the bed the following morning — I’d been to theatre, been on the bed for 12 hours, and the midwife came in and said, right, we’re going to get you up and try to get you to go for a wee. They were all a bit like, oh god, you’ve got a tear, this is going to be terrible. And I was just loving life. They were like, I’ve never seen someone with a third degree tear be so joyous. And I was like, but I’ve had two c-sections — this is amazing, this is a whole new world. I think it’s our perception because of what we’ve been through, and then the experience of going, I can get up, I can do this. It completely changes how you view it. Had I had straightforward first births and then had to deal with a third degree tear, I might have been going oh my god. But I was just like, yeah, it’s fine.
Lucy: No, I think you’re right. Because there’s part of me that was like, well, when I was pregnant the second time — if I could deal with that, the traumatic emergency section after a failed induction, episiotomy, forceps, all of that — if I can deal with that, I can deal with whatever comes from a physiological vaginal birth. Yes, it might be a bit uncomfortable. But like you say, if I hadn’t had all of that the first time — because that is way on the extreme end of the scale of intervention and prodding and poking and pain — if you’ve not had that, you’ve not really got the comparison.
April: So before we finish off today, the last question — what’s one piece of advice you would give to somebody who’s planning a VBAC?
Lucy: Hire a doula, 100%. And not necessarily someone who’s experienced in VBACs specifically — just a doula that you gel with. Because it will change your experience. Absolutely.
April: I love doing this. And I’m so excited for you to be doing that.
Lucy: So am I.
April: Just before we sign off, where can we find you on your socials?
Lucy: My Instagram handle is newbeginnings.hypnobirthing.
April: Amazing. We’ll leave all of that in the show notes so you can go and find Lucy. Thank you so much for sharing your story — it’s always such a privilege, and I just can’t wait for people to hear this one.
Lucy: Oh, thank you so much.
April: Thanks for listening to the VBAC Hub podcast. If this episode has stirred something in you today, share it with someone who might need to hear it too. You can find more conversations, resources and updates over on our socials — just search The VBAC Hub. Remember that you deserve dignity, respect and autonomy always, and I’ll see you in the next episode.